It is that time of the year again – an occasion to decorate and shop, then decorate and shop again, then repeat the entire process over and over again until everything is covered in decorations and ornaments and there is nothing left to buy! Please remember that as bare practitioners, no one has any need for any type of garment!
Actually, some commercial establishments have been decorated for the winter holidays since September! I guess the motivation is to make the purchase now and avoid the massive demand as the holidays approach!
Aaron – we’re spouses – and I are not extravagant decorative artists! Honestly, the only holiday adornment we use in our home is the Nativity icon that I hang in our icon corner in our dining room. In fact, neither of our families have any exceptional winter holiday observance aside from church (his family is Roman Catholic, mine is Greek Orthodox) and our dinner experience.
Therefore, any “holiday spirit” that adorns our lives is shared here, ReNude Pride: Guys Without Boxers! So please don’t expect any winter boxers or briefs to be featured here! We’re strictly bottoms-up!
In maintaining our current bare celebrity role models theme, we’re offering this holiday greetings message from a now defunct SGL adult film studio. The vintage theme is obvious. Any youthful faces recognized? Look carefully and closely!
At last, the serious decorating commences! The tradition of the tree is now published here for 2025! Let the party begin!
Now concluding with an official holiday sentiment accompanied by wrapped gift boxes! Of course, all the celebrities appearing in these festive images are confidently and proudly sporting their complete nakedness! Remember, it is the “season to be jolly!”
Naked hugs!
Roger Poladopoulos/ReNude Pride: Guys Without Boxers!
Author’s Note: The next post entry here is planned for Friday, December 12, 2025. and the proposed topic is: “Bare Celebrity Role Models #4: Our Gift!”
An artist’s rendition of a typical gay Thanksgiving meal!
USA: Thanksgiving Day
Last Thursday during November, annually!
The Thanksgiving Day holiday is the very first USA observance of an event that supposedly happened here before any dreams of independence even occurred. Allegedly, the Indigenous peoples and the early immigrants shared a meal together thankful for their mutual assistance in producing a plentiful crop to harvest.
Probably every one of the original 13 colonies have a legend that proclaims their colonial heritage as being the actual location of the very first Thanksgiving. Given the history of the early settlers and their distrust of the native population, and vice versa, it remains questionable if there ever was an “original Thanksgiving.”
One fact not in dispute is that the traditional Thanksgiving dinner, be it historical or legendary, always features a turkey as the main course.
A turkey with tanlines!
As to whether or not the turkey honestly has tanlines is questionable. However, I can’t imagine the amount of sunrays absorbed having any impact on the taste of the turkey!
In years past, the day after Thanksgiving always marked the mad rush for gift shopping for the winter holiday season. Now, that seems to occur earlier and earlier each year with no feast to unofficially launch the approaching season. People will do whatever is best for themselves regardless of whenever it happens.
Everyone observing this holiday have a safe and happy Thanksgiving!
Naked hugs!
Roger Poladopoulos/ReNude Pride: Guys Without Boxers!
Author’s Note: The next post entry here is planned for Sunday, November 30, 2025, and the proposed topic is: “Bottoms-Up! November, 2025!”
Tomorrow, 11 November, marks the honouring of the cease-fire between the Allied Powers and the Central Powers. It ended the Great War that eventually became known as World War I.
The Great War commenced in 1914 following the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife, the Countess Sophia, by Serbian nationalists in Sarajevo, Austria-Hungary. The conflict evolved into a global one with the entrance into the belligerence by both the United Kingdom and France and their immense colonial empires in defence of the neutrality of the Kingdom of Belgium.
The USA entered the war in 1917 upon discovering a German initiative to encourage the invasion of the US by Mexico.
The armistice (cease-fire) was a prelude to the signing of the Treaty of Versailles, which recognized the surrender of Germany to the Allied Powers in 1919. At that time, the Great War was the most severe conflagration in human history.
The Spanish influenza epidemic of 1918, following the armistice, added to the number of deaths induced by the conflict.
The Great War reintroduced the red poppy as a symbol of tribute to all of those who sacrificed their lives. The emblem honours both the military and civilian victims of the conflict before progressing the same recognition to those killed during World War II and beyond.
The Armistice applicable to the Great War was effective upon the 11th month (November), the 11th day at the 11th hour (11:00 a.m.).
The international conflict has various determinations referencing it. In the United Kingdom and Commonwealth it is observed as Remembrance Day, a lasting tribute for all the fallen. It is a Sunday holiday in many countries. It is known as Armistice Day in the remaining countries who fought in the war. In the US it is called Veterans Day.
The Poppy:
The red poppy flower represents consolation, remembrance and death. The poppy is a common symbol that throughout the centuries has been utilised the reflect everything ranging from peace to death and even including sleep (slumber). In ancient times, poppies were placed on graves in honour of eternal rest (sleep).
During The Great War (1914 – 1918) much of the fighting took place in western Europe, especially in the Flanders region of the Kingdom of Belgium. The countryside was blasted, bombed and fought over repeatedly. The landscape was torn apart by the existence of military trenches.
The previously beautiful scenery was reduced to mud – bleak and barren vistas where little or nothing could grow.
There was a remarkable exception to all the desolation – the bright red poppy. These resilient flowers flourished among the overabundance of nothing except destruction. The availability of the red poppy resulted in them to profusely dominate the graves of those killed during The Great War.
In Flanders Fields
The Poppy: symbolic of remembrance!
In Flanders Fields
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
the larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
we lived, felt dawn, saw sunsets glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie,
In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe;
to you from failing hands we throw
The torch, be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
Author: John McCrae
John McCrae was the son of Scots immigrants and born in Guelph, Ontario, Canada in 1872. In May, 1915, he was serving as a physician in the Royal Canadian Army Medical Corps in Flanders, Belgium. On May 2, Lieutenant Alexis Helmer, a Canadian field artillery officer and close friend of McCrae, was killed in the Second Battle of Ypres. Shortly afterwards, McCrae wrote the above poem in memory of his friend and honouring all the war dead.
The poem was first published on 8 December 1915, in London, UK, in the satirical magazine, Punch. It was immediately popular, widely circulated, and reprinted as a fitting tribute to all the deceased.
Have a safe and meaningful Remembrance Day/Armistice Day/Veterans Day!
Naked hugs!
Roger Poladopoulos/ReNude Pride: Guys Without Boxers!
Author’s Note: The next post entry here is planned for Friday, November 14, 2025, and the proposed topic is: “Bare Celebrity Role Model #3!”
Why SGL Adult Film Actors Illustrate ReNudePride: Guys Without Boxers!
Prologue:
One of the major purposes/reasons that my spouse, Aaron, and I launched this site, ReNude Pride: Guys Without Boxers! was to create, designate and offer a safe space (blog) where same gender loving – SGL – persons who enjoy nakedness (clothes freedom) could experience, feel, identify and sincerely be themselves. One obvious tool of sharing a receptive and welcoming atmosphere is to offer a comfortable environment where our nakedness and our sexuality is the common bond that enables us all to relate to “home.”
The “header” image (above) proves that our life philosophy as bare practitioners (bisexual or gay naturists/nudists) is definitely not a recent phenomenon (occurrence). From the hairstyles of the subjects, the vintage picture posted above is from the late 1950s/early 1960s. We were actually around before the Stonewall Inn riots (SIR) took place in 1969!
The obvious message from the header is that we’re SGL and we’re clothes free! Not only “back-in-the-day” when the picture was photographed. The .gif image below reinforces the fact that we’re still the same today!
Introduction:
In an effort to provide a comfortable, familiar and relaxing space for our fellow bare practitioners, Aaron and I believe that we should illustrate and represent us with what and who we truly are: our bodies and ourselves! In order to accomplish this task, we feature depictions of us – SGL nakedness – without any embarrassment, guilt or shame. As stated in the first posting entry of this series, we don’t feature engaging in our physical intimacy, but we do honour our awareness of our same gender anatomy and our same gender attractions.
Our being honest does not demand us being evasive. Only the truth will set us all free!
Purpose:
One concern/issue that is often posed is why publish photos of professional adult actors here? Are we recruiting future “gay porn stars?” Are we “promoting pornography?” Are we endorsing a career?
No! We are not endorsing, promoting nor recruiting for the SGL adult film industry studios nor are we encouraging sexual behaviour. The photographic illustrations accompanying this post entry here show the aspect of truth. As bisexual or gay, the male penis for many of us is an anatomical reality of interest – curiosity and wonder. We accept that fact and then we move on.
Acknowledging what we know and facing that challenge is a valid component of what and who we are is, in our opinion, better than ignoring it and pretending it goes away!
We developed this site in the hope that we all, as bare practitioners, experience a dream where we just simply celebrate in a place that allowed us, as a community and as a culture, to just be ourselves! A haven of happiness, harmony and hope!
Footnote #1:In at least one (1) of the future post entries developed for this Bare Celebrities series here on ReNude Pride: Guys Without Boxers! there will be another focus offered on the penis. That will be apparent for all when it is published. The reason for the inclusion of these images and the introduction of the penis anatomical topic at this phase of the seriespublication may necessitate this notation and reminder of this fact here at this time.
Justifications:
Probably one of the major essentials of being a successful and sought after SGL adult film industry “super-star” (extraordinary performer) is confidence and pride being publicly identified and recognized as a bisexual or gay man and extreme acceptance and comfort in nakedness (without clothing) – especially in being the only person fully nude in a studio full of support staff, all of whom are completely dressed!
In order to perform in an SGL adult film career, embarrassment, guilty, excessive modesty and/or shame is not compatible! Essentially, one is awarded a role that requires simply two simple talents: nudity and sex.
The professional actors who excel in this very specific industry, hired as such my executives who crave (desire) the action depicted and who emotionally and financially depend on the financial rewards afforded by this type of employment.
As performers in this industry, their male anatomy (penis) is one of their job assets and responsibilities. Due to it being an absolute necessity for employment, the professional actor has no obsessive or underlying need to be constantly or excessively flamboyant about their possession of this particular attribute nor are they driven to flaunt it endlessly.
Contemplating today’s post entry!
For this reason, professionals are ideal subjects for “photo-shoots” (photography sessions) – posing – where their erection (excited anatomy) is not the featured or focused object/subject. This allows them the ability to take one proverbial step away from their job essential status and become their natural, “playful” and relaxed self all with their preferred nakedness and in an environment accepting of their SGL attraction.
The result of this situation is the plethora of pictures created by professional photographers (paid by the studios) featuring the casual and playful actors in various situations not requiring their erections at full potential! A totally different promotional picture session than the routine!
The engagement of those who are experienced and familiar with the needs and skills of posing as camera subjects offers all viewers with pictures that provide better content and quality. These enhance reality and understanding. They also provide identity and recognition.
The availability of the photos offered is free online and financed by the film industry studios. This access increases the sales of the particular sales of the items offered and this increases the studio’s income (profits)! It benefits everyone involved! Admittedly, Aaron and I both enjoy the ability to view these images although at times it does test patience!
Another, slightly less prominent justification for the use of seasoned performers is that the majority of those are indeed bare practitioners (SGL nakedness) so they instinctively are aware what captures the immediate attention of those of similar identification. They also know what information persons seek and where these interests proceed. So the professionals, in order to both increase their audience base and to reward their loyalty are more than happy to at least respond to any legitimate request.
Footnote #2: Bare Celebrities #3! is already in draft format and will be published soon!
Naked hugs!
Roger Poladopoulos/ReNude Pride: Guys Without Boxers!
Author’s Note: The next post entry here is planned for Monday, November 10, 2025, and the proposed topic is: “Armistice Day/Remembrance Day!”
My father died mid-day (11:48 a.m.) on Saturday, 10 November 2018. All of us considerably miss and mourn him, especially our mother. This year, on the anniversary of his death, our family’s church is conducting a community Memorial Service as a tribute to his life.
Mother has requested Alex (my identical twin) and I to be present along with all our family and the local population. Alex and I depart later this same day for our return to Greece. My university has officially sanctioned my instructional absence. Aaron, my spouse, and his parents leave the later part of the week to join with us.
She has also scheduled some time for my seven (7) brothers and I to decide and determine some familial issues that will have to be addressed and resolved eventually. Her preference is to be an active participant in these matters. My siblings and I agree to honour her wishes.
At this time, I assure everyone that mother’s health is fine, at least physically. Emotionally and mentally, she mourns for our father. I accept, respect and understand her reality.
I have composed and submitted a number of post entries for publication here on ReNude Pride: Guys Without Boxers! during our absence.
I ask for your patience, tolerance and understanding as Aaron and I respect my mother and offer our tribute to my father’s memory.
Naked hugs!
Roger Poladopoulos/ReNude Pride: Guys Without Boxers!
Author’s Note: The next post entry here is planned for Friday, November 7, 2025, and the proposed topic is: “Bare Celebrities #2!”
Helen Hunt Jackson was born in Amherst, Massachusetts, on 15 October 1830 and died in San Francisco, California, on 12 August 1885. She was a U.S. poet and writer who became an activist for improved treatment of the Indigenous peoples by the USA national government.
Educational poetry:
My identical twin brother, Alex, and I were required to memorize the above poem in our 6th level class (primary) at the Virginia School for the Deaf and Blind. Our teacher, who was one of our all-time favourites, used poetry to improve our English writing skills as well as our general comprehension of the English language. With our school located in Virginia and this poem reflected landscape and wild natural growths common to Massachusetts.
Unfortunately, there were no American Sign Language (ASL) manual signs for almost all the items, therefore, we had to fingerspell manually virtually the entire poem. Alex loved the poem but resented the fingerspelling aspect. He still remembers his remark that he felt as a child in kindergarten learning the ABC’s because of all the fingerspelling involved. As this was our first poem to memorize, our teacher always inspected every other poetic assignment to make certain fingerspelling didn’t dominate the process again.
An October, riverside!
Enjoy your last week of October’s Bright Blue Weather!
Naked hugs!
Roger Poladopoulos/ReNude Pride: Guys Without Boxers!
Author’s Note: The next post entry here is planned for Friday, October 31, 2025, and the proposed topic is: “Bottoms-Up! October, 2025!”
For years, the official name of the October federal (national) holiday was always “Columbus Day” – honouring Christopher Columbus, the Italian navigator/sailor who led the naval expedition to discover a new route to India and the East Indies from Spain. In attempting doing this task, he “discovered” the New World.
The legends surrounding Columbus sailing the Atlantic searching for a more timely/ faster route to the Far East often led people to believe that the new lands were barren and uninhabited – how else could he discover them? Also, as his day was supposedly a “national” holiday in the USA, where in this country did he land? He was an Italian sailing for the King and Queen of Spain. How did he rate a USA holiday?
Even more confusing, why was there no national holiday honouring the peoples who already lived in this newly “discovered” land? In addition, the Norse Vikings had previously established settlements along the coasts of what is now Canada. These settlers predated Columbus by more than a century.
Too much credit was given to Christopher Columbus for tasks not in his original mission. Also, successive Italian immigrants to this New World celebrated Columbus as the “godfather” of the New World. If not for his voyages, there would have been no deluge of immigrants from Europe into these new lands! The entire history of the whole world would be altered.
Indigenous= native!
All the attention and praise on the accomplishments of Columbus and the immigrants who stole the land of all the native peoples residing in this “new world!” No one bothered to offer the disastrous impact of the enormous slave trade or the ravages of imported diseases on the inhabitants of the Caribbean islands and both the northern and southern continents.
Wherever the European immigrants settled, the indigenous populations within that area were subject to the bias of the newcomers and their discrimination against the local natives. After all, they were bringing “civilisation” to this savage land!
Their civilized import prevailed, and this country began to celebrate “Columbus Day” exclusively. It remained that way until the people started to realize that we’re not giving any recognition to the earlier inhabitants here who preserved the lands, the livestock and the environment that thrived until immigration began.
Beginning in the early years of the 21st century, calendars are now listing the traditional “Columbus Day” holiday as “Columbus Day/Indigenous People’s Day.” Currently, calendars are now printed listing only the Indigenous People’s Day designation. Since Christopher Columbus didn’t actually “discover” a New World, he no longer needs a special honour. As the Italian people didn’t sponsor his voyages to the west, they made no contribution in exploring the new shores.
On this day, it is especially important to remember to honour, salute and pay tribute to the Indigenous Peoples of this site, ReNude Pride: Guys Without Boxers! A very special commendation to allbare practitioners!
Happy Indigenous People’s Day to everyone! We’re all indigenous to some region on this planet!
Naked hugs!
Roger Poladopoulos/ReNude Pride: Guys Without Boxers!
Author’s Note: The next post entry here is planned for Thursday, October 16, 2025, and the proposed topic is: “Spirit Day, 2025!”
The downward-pointed pink triangle was used in Nazi Germany during the 1930s and 1940s as a badge of shame. It was sewn onto the shirts of “deviant” men (homosexuals) in concentration camps to identify and to dehumanize them. Sexual deviancy was made illegal in Germany in 1871 with the creation of the German Empire, but the statute was rarely enforced.
When the national socialists (Nazi) seized control and power in 1933, it was made a priority in order to culturally and racially “purify” Germany. The Nazis arrested and incarcerated thousands of “deviant” men and sent them into concentration camps, where many perished. They viewed them all as degenerate and impure.
The pink triangle has been reclaimed as an empowering symbol for the GLBTQ+ community and culture. It is also serving as a reminder to remember the past – and to recognize the persecution GLBTQ+ people continue to suffer around the world.
The pink triangle on a black banner was the first “flag” to signify the gay and lesbian movement.
GLBTQ+ safe space emblem!
The above depiction of the pink triangle inside a green circle represents a safe space where GLBTQ+ people will not be harassed, ridiculed or shamed. This identification was necessary due to the threats against our community and culture by homophobic individuals who operated with the unofficial endorsement of law enforcement during the emerging HIV/AIDS epidemic.
The Lambda!
The Lambda:
The lambda was first designed in December, 1969, by Tom Doerr, a graphic artist and one of the founding members of the emerging Gay Activists Alliance. Doerr selected it because in chemistry, the lambda represented catalyst. Later, it was argued that the lambda denoted synergy of the growing gay and lesbian movement; the idea of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.
The Lambda image from the Greek alphabet was first chosen as a gay symbol when, in 1970 – one year after the Stonewall Inn riots (SIR) – it was adopted by the then New York City’s Gay Activist Alliance as the emblem of their growing movement of gay liberation. In 1974, it was subsequently adopted by the International Gay Rights Congress at their international conference in Edinburgh, Scotland, UK. As their symbol for gay and lesbian civil rights, the lambda became globally popular and recognized.
Many interpreted the lambda symbol as for males only.
The original rainbow pride flag!
The Rainbow Pride Flag:
First raised on June25, 1978, in San Francisco, California, USA! It was designed and created in honour of gay pride at the 1978 San Francisco Gy Freedom Day parade in honouring the annual anniversary of SIR. The very original flag consisted of eight coloured stripes and was designed by Gilbert Baker and hand-stitched and dyed with the help of friends and volunteers Lynn Segerblum, James McNamara, Glynne McElhinney, Joe Duran and Paul Langlotz.
The eight-stripe original was soon revised to six stripes with pink (symbolizing “sex”) and turquoise (symbolizing “art and magic”) eliminated as the colours were unavailable in flag fabrics.
Baker conceived the flag would “empower his tribe” in a “rainbow of humanity” motif to represent the GLBTQ+ movement’s diversity.
Above are the stripes and the meanings associated with each one of the rainbow-based colours.
The Progress Pride Flag!
The Progress Pride Flag:
The Progress Pride Flag was developed by non-binary artist and designer Daniel Quasar in 2018. Based on Gilbert Baker’s 1978 rainbow flag, Quasar’s redesign celebrates the continued growing diversity of the GLBTQ+ community and culture and encourages a more inclusive general society. The improved design increased the representation of discriminated minority identities covered by the GLBTQ+ umbrella.
Quasar’s creation placing black and brown stripes (emblems representing peoples of colour) and light blue, pink and white stripes (representing transgender and non-binary persons) in the shape of an arrow on the left of the Progress Pride flag. In Daniel Quasar’s own words “…the arrow points to the right to show forward movement and illustrates that progress towards inclusivity still needs to be made.”
The black stripe has multiple meanings as it is also intended for “…those living with HIV/AIDS and the prejudice and stigma surrounding them in addition to those who have died from the disease.”
On the evening of 6 June, 2018, Quasar posted the design on social media and went to bed. He woke the next day and discovered that it had viral! It was an immediate success!
The Progress Pride flag over the University of Nottingham!
The Progress Pride flag is currently internationally recognized as representing the global LGBTQ+ community and culture. It is now flown at the United Nations. The inclusive design and nature of this flag have received the commendation of many.
Naked hugs!
Roger Poladopoulos/ReNude Pride: Guys Without Boxers!
Author’s Note: The next post entry here is planned for Friday, October 10, 2025, and the proposed topic is: “NCOD: Closets Are For Clothes!”
The announced and planned post entry for this past Monday, 18 August, 2025, never occurred and my spouse, Aaron, and I both share the blame for that mishap! We’re just too much in love and we’ll only have one 10th anniversary. A very “last minute” (spontaneous) decision on our part for an extended anniversary celebration: a bromantic (he and me) extended weekend away from our routine to a Florida clothing optional resort that we’ve never visited before.
Our weekend ended yesterday: Thursday, 21August. I did mention an “extended” weekend, correct? We added four days and a renewal of ourselves!
Together!
This impulsive adventure was totally unplanned. We had discussed an excursion of this nature in the past but never actually realized that it didn’t really require that much attention to detail. After all, we’re usually “clothing optional” around our condominium/home anyway. So we had minimal need for any “official” wardrobe. Just the two of us being our natural selves.
Passion!
We do apologize to anyone if our spontaneity created any inconvenience for you. It was unintentional although irresponsible from the both of us. Please know that we both regret the error and can assure all of you that we’ll do our best to avoid any similarity in the future.
Naked hugs!
Roger Poladopoulos/ReNude Pride: Guys Without Boxers!
Author’s Note: The next post entry for this site is planned for Monday, August 25, 2025, and the proposed topic is: “August Antics!”
One serious project, as the author of the ReNude Pride: Guys Without Boxers!, is to constantly identify new topics to address concerning bare practitioners as well as subjects relating to our being same gender loving (SGL) – bisexual or gay – in addition to our preference for nakedness. It is indeed far easier and simpler to complacently repeat over and over concepts, ideas and topics already covered in previous post entries here. However, that quickly becomes boring, lackluster and very repetitious!
In trying to keep informative, interesting and thoughtful, one must also be both creative and imaginative while pursuing newer aspects of being a bare practitioner in today’s world. This search presents challenges, experiences and opportunities to expand our knowledge, help us to grow as members of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and queer+ (GLBTQ+) community and culture and as proponents of the nakedness community and culture.
The respected ancient adage: “Variety is the spice of life!” is applicable and current today as it was centuries ago!
Jason Vario (left) and Daymin Voss (right)!
Introduction:
The result of the most recent research for different and resourceful items to offer here is the title of this particular post entry here today: The Bare/Dare Series, 2025! The intended purpose of this series is to examine our nakedness and how it is influenced by our life experiences, attitudes and social factors. We’ll explore how we, personally, determine our own limitations on our being bare and how that decision impacts our lives. Then we will focus on the various ways we adapt our levels of expectations and tolerances of our levels of nakedness, both individually and/or socially.
This The Bare/Dare Series, 2025! will consist of three (3) post entries here. The plan is to publish all three postings before the end of the current summer season in the Northern Hemisphere. This deadline serves two purposes: a) those in the Northern Hemisphere who wish to “sample” the bare practitioner experience will be able to do so before the external weather evolves and b) those living in the Southern Hemisphere have the chance to incorporate any new concepts/ideals into their routines prior to the advent of their summertime.
In both hemispheres, regardless of the season, anyone curious about nudity can use the presentations in whatever manner they desire/prefer.
Felipe Ferreira: a sandy profile!
A reminder to all that there is, to the best of our knowledge, no official “rule book” or guideline for engaging in nakedness. Both Aaron, my spouse, and I know of many persons and/or organizations who consider themselves in an authoritative capacity or position but we are unable to determine what entitled that distinction.
It remains the responsibility of each person to decide their personal level of comfort with their nudity!
Naked hugs!
Roger Poladopoulos/ReNude Pride: Guys Without Boxers!
Author’s Note: The next post entry here is planned for Thursday, July 31, 2025, and the proposed topic is: “Bottoms-Up! July, 2025!”
ReNude Pride: Guys Without Boxers! 